Author Topic: Five Magic Bullets  (Read 540 times)

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Offline Caroline

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Five Magic Bullets
« on: October 18, 2019, 07:21:PM »
This is something that I believe Scipio first mentioned - at the time, I didn't take too much notice but having thought about it, it's pretty damming!

On 9th August 1985, Taff and Stan Jones called to see Jeremy, in a bid to put Stan's mind at rest Re: Jeremy being involved. Jeremy was asked about the sights and the moderator and was also asked about the bullets left on the counter top. As we know, there were 25 rounds used in the murders, Jeremy said he had grabbed a box of ammo just after spotting the rabbits (the box contained 50 rounds), he loaded 8-10 bullets into the EMPTY magazine clip, all the while RUSHING because he wanted to get the rabbits. All sounds fairly straight forward and with some simply maths you should be able to work out that from a box of 50 bullets with 25 used (none were used to shoot the rabbits), there should be 25 left on the counter. However, there were 30 - where did the 5 extra bullets come from?

There must have been 5 bullets already in the magazine. Jeremy probably didn't think this important initially, however, it's gets complicated when you filter in the rabbit story and his haste to shoot them. If he was in a hurry to shoot the rabbits, why did he need to fill the clip when there was 5 bullets already loaded? After all, he was in a hurry! He also states clearly that the magazine was empty but that no shots were fired at the rabbits. The story doesn't compute - it's a pity we don't have Taff Jones's witness statement because it was he who documented that there were 30 rounds left on the counter - this should have been pursued!
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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Five Magic Bullets
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2019, 07:35:PM »
The bullets had evidently been staged by Jeremy on the blue and white chequered worktop. Had they been present before Pamela's telephone call June or Nevill would have cleared them away. If Sheila had opened a new box in the middle of the night as you say there would not have been a surplus of five.

Once again Jeremy is condemned by the words emanating from his own mouth.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 07:36:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline David1819

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Re: Five Magic Bullets
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2019, 07:59:PM »
This was brought up in Jeremy’s police questioning in September..

To argue that it’s incriminating it’s to argue that a woman can’t pick up five rounds from the office cupboard. Which is one reason why it was never raised by the prosecution in the first place. Another is the defence would have spun it as evidence that Sheila did go to the cupboard thus bolstering Rivlins narrative.

It wasn’t really worth Arlidge bringing it up.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Five Magic Bullets
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2019, 08:02:PM »
This was brought up in Jeremy’s police questioning in September..

To argue that it’s incriminating it’s to argue that a woman can’t pick up five rounds from the office cupboard. Which is one reason why it was never raised by the prosecution in the first place. Another is the defence would have spun it as evidence that Sheila did go to the cupboard thus bolstering Rivlins narrative.

It wasn’t really worth Arlidge bringing it up.

I can't find it in his interrogation?

However, the argument that Sheila would have looked for more bullets when they were readily available on the counter top is very weak - I think it would have been worth pursuing.
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Five Magic Bullets
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2019, 08:03:PM »
The bullets had evidently been staged by Jeremy on the blue and white chequered worktop. Had they been present before Pamela's telephone call June or Nevill would have cleared them away. If Sheila had opened a new box in the middle of the night as you say there would not have been a surplus of five.

Once again Jeremy is condemned by the words emanating from his own mouth.

I fully agree Steve!
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Offline David1819

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Re: Five Magic Bullets
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2019, 08:38:PM »
The ammo packs came in boxes of 50. The boxes that David Boutflour had collected from the cupboard became known as DRB/3. In total there was 245 bullets for DRB/3. Hence one of those ammo boxes had five used up.

There is no magic going on here.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Five Magic Bullets
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2019, 08:47:PM »
The ammo packs came in boxes of 50. The boxes that David Boutflour had collected from the cupboard became known as DRB/3. In total there was 245 bullets for DRB/3. Hence one of those ammo boxes had five used up.

There is no magic going on here.

Obviously they originated from the store of bullets at WHF, but the 5 in question must have been in the magazine - the one Jeremy declared was empty. Jeremy took one pack of 50, he couldn't have taken the one with 5 missing or there would have only been 20 left on the counter.

I know we have had many differences, but I don't think you're stupid so I would find it VERY DIFFICULT to believe that you would buy the argument that Sheila must have taken an extra 5?
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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Five Magic Bullets
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2019, 08:55:PM »
No blood train in the den either. This is just a case of the Bamberettes jumping through yet another hoop to sustain the claim for Jeremy's innocence.

Offline lookout

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Re: Five Magic Bullets
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2019, 08:59:PM »
Wouldn't it have been more to the point if every bullet, spent or otherwise had been fingerprinted as in a proper investigation ?

Offline Jane

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Re: Five Magic Bullets
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2019, 08:59:PM »
This was brought up in Jeremy’s police questioning in September..

To argue that it’s incriminating it’s to argue that a woman can’t pick up five rounds from the office cupboard. Which is one reason why it was never raised by the prosecution in the first place. Another is the defence would have spun it as evidence that Sheila did go to the cupboard thus bolstering Rivlins narrative.

It wasn’t really worth Arlidge bringing it up.

But that rather presupposes that Sheila was thinking clearly and was about to kill in cold blood. I think, in order for Sheila to be guilty, it has to be decided whether she was lucid or, as previously suggested, having a psychotic episode.

Offline lookout

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Re: Five Magic Bullets
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2019, 09:01:PM »
No blood train in the den either. This is just a case of the Bamberettes jumping through yet another hoop to sustain the claim for Jeremy's innocence.



Hey, that'll do. >:(

Offline Caroline

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Re: Five Magic Bullets
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2019, 09:07:PM »
Wouldn't it have been more to the point if every bullet, spent or otherwise had been fingerprinted as in a proper investigation ?

That would make no difference to this particular point.
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Offline lookout

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Re: Five Magic Bullets
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2019, 09:12:PM »
That would make no difference to this particular point.




It's still retrospective whichever way you look at it. Closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Five Magic Bullets
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2019, 09:20:PM »



It's still retrospective whichever way you look at it. Closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

No even sure what point you're making here - anyway .....

Fletcher confirms that there was indeed 30 bullets. Still 5 too many!
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Offline David1819

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Re: Five Magic Bullets
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2019, 09:34:PM »
No blood train in the den either. This is just a case of the Bamberettes jumping through yet another hoop to sustain the claim for Jeremy's innocence.

Blood train?  ???