Author Topic: The real sequence of police phone calls.  (Read 1306 times)

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Offline Caroline

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Re: The real sequence of police phone calls.
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2019, 02:24:AM »
Strange really to pester his girlfriend with telephone calls, when he was later to claim under Police interrogation that their relationship had been cooling for months. Maybe it had cooled after she refused to back him when the realization came that he was guilty of mass murder..

Probably buzzing and needed someone to talk to and also, the call acted as an alibi and confirmation of events to her flat mates.
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Offline Jane

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Re: The real sequence of police phone calls.
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2019, 07:34:AM »
I'd be more worried if he had everything timed to the second !


Well, as long as it's only SOME things, I guess that makes it alright?

Offline Jane

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Re: The real sequence of police phone calls.
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2019, 08:12:AM »
This was contained within the first telephone call of the three, made within the space of a few hours. It's not like you to omit detail David: normally you wear us down with a superfluity of extraneous detail, or interpret documents which have come into your possession in what can only be described as a most unorthodox way.


David relies heavily on, and interprets, the facts which form the basis of the trial. These are devoid of human interactions and emotions. But it's stories behind them which have led to their creation. We know that the person Jeremy is now is far removed from who he was then. In fact, even "then", going on the adage which tells us that actions speak louder than words, he wasn't who he presented himself as being. I guess we can have some sympathy with a man who sees himself as being stuck in rural Essex, having to flog his guts out doing a job he's not suited for, to support a sister, living it up in London, who's never lifted a finger to help herself, and her children. She and they will be a life time's drain on what he regards as his.

Many of us bought into Jeremy's story. For personal reasons, some of us wanted to. Inevitably, as his actions spoke to us more loudly than his words, our perception of him changed.

Offline lookout

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Re: The real sequence of police phone calls.
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2019, 10:18:AM »
 " Human interactions and Emotions " is what the normal person, Jeremy being no different, reacts to at receiving such a call in the early hours. Anyone's normal brain needs time for such events to sink in.
How would it have seemed to anyone that after receiving such a call that he was as steady as a rock and precise in making his next move/decision-----this being after wakening at 3 in the morning, or thereabouts ? At that stage, he hadn't known that anyone was dead and by all accounts he'd been familiar with Sheila having the odd meltdown which amounted to nothing when her father was able to calm her and prevent a disaster.

Any sudden rush on Jeremy's part would have indicated that it was either expected or that he'd done it and showed his willingness to help police like Huntley did in trying to cover his guilt !

Offline lookout

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Re: The real sequence of police phone calls.
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2019, 10:33:AM »
 What " actions " are you talking about, Jane ?

I don't know any 24 year old who isn't bored with their job. Every young person misses the nightlife if they're otherwise busy either back then or today.

It's nothing to do with if you " buy into it or not ", it's what your own thoughts perceive and you've chosen to find him guilty on flimsy throwaway accounts of a boring life which millions suffer from and is no basis for believing he'd killed anyone.

Offline Jane

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Re: The real sequence of police phone calls.
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2019, 11:38:AM »
" Human interactions and Emotions " is what the normal person, Jeremy being no different, reacts to at receiving such a call in the early hours. Anyone's normal brain needs time for such events to sink in.
How would it have seemed to anyone that after receiving such a call that he was as steady as a rock and precise in making his next move/decision-----this being after wakening at 3 in the morning, or thereabouts ? At that stage, he hadn't known that anyone was dead and by all accounts he'd been familiar with Sheila having the odd meltdown which amounted to nothing when her father was able to calm her and prevent a disaster.

Any sudden rush on Jeremy's part would have indicated that it was either expected or that he'd done it and showed his willingness to help police like Huntley did in trying to cover his guilt !



The difference here, Lookout, is that I'm not just looking at one thing ie his reactions to an alleged call, (which actually are perfectly appropriate to a call which never happened because he had no sense of any urgency until he thought it might be appropriate to drop such into the conversation he was having with West) I'm looking at all his actions and his conversations. The deeper I've looked, the clearer it's become that Jeremy didn't know how to feel but watched the reaction of others to gain so sort of insight.

You appear to be saying -as you insist that "normal" brains need time to let such things sink in, that those of us who react appropriately aren't normal, but I'm sure I can't have that right. On the other hand you suggest he was used to dealing with this sort of thing from Sheila, so why such hesitancy on this occasion? No matter HOW hard you try to defend  his reactions to that one incident, nothing will persuade me that he acted with any sort of concern. NO one, in an emergency, would NOT call 999. NO one would waste time going through a telephone directory and making abortive calls. NO one would ditch calling for help to phone a person too far away to be of any assistance. ALL of those actions were about DOING. NONE was about feeling.

I really don't get where your contrary comments come from. Rushing was required. It would NOT have indicated guilt, nor that he thought it was something expected (of him?) -however, he may well have thought long and hard about what might be the best way of 'doing' things to present himself in the best possible light. It didn't occur to him that he'd need to be able to feel it, too- furthermore we didn't have Ian Huntley as a yardstick.

Offline Jane

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Re: The real sequence of police phone calls.
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2019, 11:42:AM »
What " actions " are you talking about, Jane ?

I don't know any 24 year old who isn't bored with their job. Every young person misses the nightlife if they're otherwise busy either back then or today.

It's nothing to do with if you " buy into it or not ", it's what your own thoughts perceive and you've chosen to find him guilty on flimsy throwaway accounts of a boring life which millions suffer from and is no basis for believing he'd killed anyone.


No Lookout. I haven't judged him guilty on any ONE thing in particular. It was an amalgam. Incidentally, at 24, most of the time I loved my job..............but it was the one thing I'D chosen for ME, not something I'd been forced into.

Offline David1819

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Re: The real sequence of police phone calls.
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2019, 11:47:AM »

Oh archives, undoubtedly.

Undoubtedly  ::)

Offline lookout

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Re: The real sequence of police phone calls.
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2019, 05:09:PM »


The difference here, Lookout, is that I'm not just looking at one thing ie his reactions to an alleged call, (which actually are perfectly appropriate to a call which never happened because he had no sense of any urgency until he thought it might be appropriate to drop such into the conversation he was having with West) I'm looking at all his actions and his conversations. The deeper I've looked, the clearer it's become that Jeremy didn't know how to feel but watched the reaction of others to gain so sort of insight.

You appear to be saying -as you insist that "normal" brains need time to let such things sink in, that those of us who react appropriately aren't normal, but I'm sure I can't have that right. On the other hand you suggest he was used to dealing with this sort of thing from Sheila, so why such hesitancy on this occasion? No matter HOW hard you try to defend  his reactions to that one incident, nothing will persuade me that he acted with any sort of concern. NO one, in an emergency, would NOT call 999. NO one would waste time going through a telephone directory and making abortive calls. NO one would ditch calling for help to phone a person too far away to be of any assistance. ALL of those actions were about DOING. NONE was about feeling.

I really don't get where your contrary comments come from. Rushing was required. It would NOT have indicated guilt, nor that he thought it was something expected (of him?) -however, he may well have thought long and hard about what might be the best way of 'doing' things to present himself in the best possible light. It didn't occur to him that he'd need to be able to feel it, too- furthermore we didn't have Ian Huntley as a yardstick.







When you have a father who is anti-authority it's difficult to know what to do for the best. It was obvious what he thought of EP ( Dad's Army ) then the social services came under fire when Sheila was involved with them concerning the children. Probably because Nevill didn't give Jeremy any orders when he rang, such as telling him to phone the police, though we know now that by all accounts Nevill had already done that before Jeremy had rang them, may have prompted him into shifting himself.

He was very likely scared in case he got shot if he went to WHF and was delaying going there. Nobody would have known what was going through his mind at that time, I don't care who it is. It's easy to say that he didn't ring 999 because it was he who'd done the murders-----case closed as far as you're concerned. If only things were that simple.

How do you know that Jeremy had been " forced " into the job ? Didn't he seek alternate employment ?
Which was probably harder work than the farm which had been a cushy number sitting in a tractor getting well-paid, I can't see any forced labour there !   

Offline Caroline

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Re: The real sequence of police phone calls.
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2019, 05:45:PM »






When you have a father who is anti-authority it's difficult to know what to do for the best. It was obvious what he thought of EP ( Dad's Army ) then the social services came under fire when Sheila was involved with them concerning the children. Probably because Nevill didn't give Jeremy any orders when he rang, such as telling him to phone the police, though we know now that by all accounts Nevill had already done that before Jeremy had rang them, may have prompted him into shifting himself.

He was very likely scared in case he got shot if he went to WHF and was delaying going there. Nobody would have known what was going through his mind at that time, I don't care who it is. It's easy to say that he didn't ring 999 because it was he who'd done the murders-----case closed as far as you're concerned. If only things were that simple.

How do you know that Jeremy had been " forced " into the job ? Didn't he seek alternate employment ?
Which was probably harder work than the farm which had been a cushy number sitting in a tractor getting well-paid, I can't see any forced labour there !   

Anti authority? He was a magistrate for goodness sake! The old Dads Army comment has no basis in fact!  According to Jeremy, he did make a request, he asked him to come to WHF! Nevill didn't call the police!

Things are that simple, in an emergency, you call 999!

Farming is easier than serving in a bar? There is really no limit to the excuses you will make!
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline lookout

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Re: The real sequence of police phone calls.
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2019, 05:54:PM »
Anti authority? He was a magistrate for goodness sake! The old Dads Army comment has no basis in fact!  According to Jeremy, he did make a request, he asked him to come to WHF! Nevill didn't call the police!

Things are that simple, in an emergency, you call 999!

Farming is easier than serving in a bar? There is really no limit to the excuses you will make!





Being a Magistrate doesn't stop you from hating to deal with authorities outside of your job. Nevill was his own man and obviously didn't wish to be involved with government busybodies.

So, after Jeremy had completed 17 hrs on the rape harvest he had bags of energy to go on and cycle to the farm and kill everyone ? Make up your mind, farming was either cushier than working in a bar or it wasn't !!

Offline Caroline

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Re: The real sequence of police phone calls.
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2019, 07:02:PM »




Being a Magistrate doesn't stop you from hating to deal with authorities outside of your job. Nevill was his own man and obviously didn't wish to be involved with government busybodies.

So, after Jeremy had completed 17 hrs on the rape harvest he had bags of energy to go on and cycle to the farm and kill everyone ? Make up your mind, farming was either cushier than working in a bar or it wasn't !!

You didn't know Nevill Lookout but the last thing you would choose to do if you hated dealing with authorities - is become a magistrate!

He didn't speak a FULL 17 hours and didn't complete his job at the end of the day - plus I have \never said he cycled anywhere!
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline nugnug

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Re: The real sequence of police phone calls.
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2019, 07:02:PM »
we have no idea what nevile was or wasnt really like.

Offline Jane

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Re: The real sequence of police phone calls.
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2019, 07:21:PM »
we have no idea what nevile was or wasnt really like.

Some of us have a little insight provided by those who DID know him.

Offline nugnug

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Re: The real sequence of police phone calls.
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2019, 07:26:PM »
Some of us have a little insight provided by those who DID know him.

nearly all of them have a vested intrest in painting a crtan picture of him.